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Soundoff Super Series Competition Format Explained - questions and clarifications posted here


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#31 Marc

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:41 AM

I feel I need to chime in here and set a few things straight. We, admin or what is now the newly forming MEASPL committee have been unfairly portrayed in this thread and I am a little dissapointed.

As we know MEA plans to roll out a national format for SPL competition in 2012. Not because I want to (in fact, I certainly don't need more work), but due to the want of many of the industry's major players and indeed the SPL competition enthusiast base around the country. The industry looks to MEA when this is required just like they did when no SQ competition format or organisation existed. What is needed and wanted is a simple format, that encourages new blood to the sport but of course needs to attract the support and interest of the existing experienced competitor base from around the country - particularly in VIC, QLD, ACT and NSW where there have been many years of competition and some advanced competitors and builds.

We understand SA now has a developing SPL competition scene thanks to the hardwork of Sorin and some others in the last 18 months. We need to appreciate however with the odd exception, this is a very new competitor base mostly all within their first year of competition, and that the majority of these participants are not even familiar with traditional SPL competition formats such as dB Drag Racing and all they know is the previous MEASA SPL competition format (which differed greatly from dB Drags).

I appreciate you guys think the current format is excellent and has some even better refinements now, and of course are going to throw your full weight behind Sorin's format. I am a little dissapointed however at how we have been portrayed here and the fact that we are considering not running with Sorin's format has not been given any justification or explanation - instead those in the know have happily just let us look like the MEASA format has been dismissed without consideration or discussion. Quite the opposite in fact.

I spoke at length with Sorin, and I clearly voiced my concerns about some of the components of the format not being suitable for a national style format. It would appear that was dismissed itself initially and not taken into consideration. I posted in our SPL Committee forum only a matter of days ago that perhaps MEASPL should just adopt Sorin's format prior to the new reworked version being published. I then however saw the new format and realised even more that yes, while it may suit SA very well, it definitely does not suit the rest of the states. We have had feedback too from around the country and 30 seconds average SPL is not the answer - among other things.

I feel that none of my feedback was taken onboard - and the SA format has evolved with no consideration taken at all into what other states need. This was an opinion also shared by some others that are involved. It was then that we decided that we need to revisit what we had already been working on throughout 2011 and that has had another two refinements in the past 48 hours. I stated at the same time that I completely understand and appreciate that South Australia has a different requirement set to the rest of the country and that MEA will still recognise, support and promote "MEASA SPL" as the official competition format of South Australia, still under the MEASPL banner.

SA will need to make some compromise too if it is to be part of our national competition format. We do not feel that there has been much compromise at all so far despite our previous and vocal willingness to tailor the competition format entirely to accommodate the existing groundwork SA had done but of course to still have the end result being a format that can be used in the other evolved states.

At the 11th hour, the others involved in the MEASPL Committee from around the states have stepped up and and reworked the BASS Battle format (which was already close to being right after a number of revisions in 2011) and I am encouraged by what I read - that has taken aboard all the feedback received and injected some of our own ideas for a healthy competition scene, hence my comment to Sorin (Friday night I think) that we will not be proceeding with the MEASA SPL format as the national MEASPL competition format.

The posting of the SA format on Facebook and MEA was perhaps a little premature also given that we were still in discussions and development of all this. Within minutes I received messages from organisers and members in other states asking if this was the official MEASPL Bass Battle format. All this did was add to the confusion, and we were not given much opportunity to have input from other states perspectives before this was made public.

I hope this clarifies this somewhat. I have nothing but respect for Sorin, and all involved in MEASA - what has been achieved in 2011 is brilliant. I intend to still fully support the MEA[SA] SPL format however, at this time, it is just not suited for a national competition. That is unfortunate, but sometimes it doesn't always work out.

Finally, I'm still all for finding a solution - but it has to work for all and there will be compromise required on all parts. It takes time to get this right and the 2012 season officially is still a couple of months away. If there is a chance, I would still like to explore it.

#32 KSR

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:24 AM

Marc,

I apologise if my previous posts seemed to portray either yourself or the SPL committee in any bad light, that was not my intention, moreso to voice my disappointment at the outcome and the way it came about. Nothing personal and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

While I understand that the initial MEASPL rules Sorin posted were not suitable for a National format (the whole 30 sec averaged score is something I don't agree with) and as you can see, it has been removed from the rules through feedback from other SA members. This approach is what I think is needed if there is to a National format.

You stated that you were initially happy to put it to the other states to run with the previous SPL format run in SA, and that then you saw the new version and decided it wasn't suitable for a National format. My question is, why not, rather than getting a couple of SPL guys to rework the previous format as a rush job at the last hour, open it up to all MEASPL comittee members (across the board) each one having equal say in what they thought of the rules, what they thought should change etc.

That would then truly make it a National format, with the voice from all states coming into play when making the rules, rather than that of just a few. While some may not get everything their own way and how they would like it, but you must have compromises, which I think all would agree in inevitable.

So, trying to keep things short (I don't want to spend the entire Sunday in front of the comp) how about you take both formats, the reworked Bass Battle format and Sorin's current version of the evolving SA rules, to the MEASPL committee. Get each members opinion on which one they think would work in their state, what they like and dislike about each one, and then get this all out in the open. Then, there may be a possibility of compromise between the two formats, a middle ground, where the strengths of both formats are combined, removing the weaknesses from each format. This would then give a format, that each committee member has helped create (rather than just a few), that can be rolled out Nationally. While due to compromise it may not suit each state perfectly, it will suit the national as a whole, and I believe over time (a year or so) people will come to accept the format, forgetting the compromises previously made.

This is just my take on it, a way to keep everyone 'reasonably' happy, rather than some incredibly pleased and others bitterly disappointed. Again, tis just personal opinion, so take it with a pinch of salt if you will :)

Kane

#33 Marc

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:46 AM

Kane, your suggestions are exactly what has been happening within the committee and MEASPL Admin forum already. Unfortunately, the rest of us didn't get a whole lot of time to have any input before it was posted up in the MEA[SA] forum.

Our approach with formats and rules (as per MEASQ for the last few years), is to develop these things privately, and the post the first draft for public comment. We then make changes before releasing the completed format. Again, we didn't get this opportunity.

#34 KSR

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:43 PM

Marc, thanks for clarifying that, if that's the process then I'm content with the outcome. One question though, is there a reason the Formats weren't up for public viewing beforehand? I'm assuming time restrictions? Is there a chance this can still happen or has that ship already sailed?

#35 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:21 PM

I feel I need to chime in here and set a few things straight. We, admin or what is now the newly forming MEASPL committee have been unfairly portrayed in this thread and I am a little dissapointed.


G'day Marc

You have expressed your thoughts rather clearly in the post that the above quote is from.
I understand a bit more now what has been happening and you're right I did feel MEA had been disrespectful towards MEASA, now it seems more as though there may have been some miscommunication or misunderstanding.

I hope that before next year things are worked out because I like the idea of a national comp and I encourage everyone to stick with it and keep up the good work as they work towards making MEA SPL a fair dinkum Australian competition.

Dean.

#36 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:44 PM

Hi Guys,

I am happy to put this situation to rest and progress with making plans for 2012 with the rules we've posted in the SA section.
As Marc has outlined, SA's competition scene is still in its infancy and we are trying our best to maintain our awesome culture while growing our competitor base and getting the word out there. If at any time you guys decide it's time to get on board with Bass Battle let us know - we are definitely keen to see SA part of something bigger than ourselves too!

If I may ask, lets put the State/National format discussions aside for now and focus on really launching SA's next season of competitions as best we can. Any suggestions, questions or clarifications you have on the format that's been released for SA would be very much appreciated as we attempt to put together some scrutineering guidelines for Judges. Would love to still get some final comments on the format so we can finalise it in the next couple of days and then ramp up our efforts for 2012. It is gonna be a great year for SA, no doubt the biggest we've ever seen, so have your say now!

#37 Big_Valven

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:35 PM

....................................

Edited by Big_Valven, 28 November 2011 - 01:20 AM.


#38 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:10 AM

G'day

I was just having a smoke before bed and decided to go over the classes again to fill in time lol

I found myself pondering who runs three 8" subs, personally I don't know of any total novices who know nothing about car audio who start out with three 8s

The reason I bring this up is because I'm starting to understand that cone area is pretty important when it comes to SPL all other things being equal.

Novice can have 1x12" 2x10" or 3x8" subs, I would think a lot of first timers will rock up with their single 12" sub which gives them yes you guessed it 12" of surface area lol.... now just for an example here my father would be considered a novice but he could rock up with 3 8" woofers giving him a total of 24" of surface area.

It might be to late or others might not agree with my thoughts but I'm wondering if maybe 3x 8" subs should have been put in the intermediate class? for two reasons:

1) surface area would be closer in sizes
2) I don't see to many novice people using 3 8" subs.

Dean.

#39 Lunchbox.inc

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:41 AM

i'll address both points bought up here...


as a start, the "who would have 3x 8"s point... Paul L, with the silver BA falcon who regularly competes at the SA events, i believe last year he had a prelude with 3x 8"s, which was the 1st car he'd entered in a soundoff... from memory he scored around a 127db mark...?



and with cone area, it doesn't quite work that way... the simple way of working out your cone area is

Pi x (R x R)

Pi being 3.14 and R meaning the radius,

while your head explodes over that one, lol here's a couple of figures

1x 12" = 113.1 sq. inch of cone area
2x 10" = 157.1 sq. inch of cone area
3x 8" = 150.8 sq. inch of cone area

as you can see the 2x 10"s would actually come out the smartest move on the cone area idea... but not enough that it would actually make a difference...

as we know, to gain 3db, we must double the cone area, while keeping the power to each woofer the same, as one 12" has more than 2/3 the cone area of 2x 10"s the difference would be negligible at best...

plus we add in other factors, such as excursion, and phase and what not and it's all pretty fair...

Edited by I♥Miley.inc, 03 December 2011 - 01:43 AM.


#40 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 01:49 AM

i'll address both points bought up here...


as a start, the "who would have 3x 8"s point... Paul L, with the silver BA falcon who regularly competes at the SA events, i believe last year he had a prelude with 3x 8"s, which was the 1st car he'd entered in a soundoff... from memory he scored around a 127db mark...?



and with cone area, it doesn't quite work that way... the simple way of working out your cone area is

Pi x (R x R)

Pi being 3.14 and R meaning the radius,

while your head explodes over that one, lol here's a couple of figures

1x 12" = 113.1 sq. inch of cone area
2x 10" = 157.1 sq. inch of cone area
3x 8" = 150.8 sq. inch of cone area

as you can see the 2x 10"s would actually come out the smartest move on the cone area idea... but not enough that it would actually make a difference...

as we know, to gain 3db, we must double the cone area, while keeping the power to each woofer the same, as one 12" has more than 2/3 the cone area of 2x 10"s the difference would be negligible at best...

plus we add in other factors, such as excursion, and phase and what not and it's all pretty fair...


for being a smart cookie you sir get one of these

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#41 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:51 PM

Bumping this thread - our local series now has a new name and calendar will be announced soon - stay tuned!!

#42 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 10:54 PM

G'day

Is this super series going to be a points based series or is it just the person who wins at the grand final wins that class for the year?

#43 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:46 AM

Still to be discussed but the idea would be that we run a points system as well as score board, so at the end of year we would be giving out trophies for the season points winner and highest score too.

#44 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:18 AM

G'day

Just curious as to if someone purchased a car as a daily and it had holes cut by previous owner for 6x9s in the parcel shelf would they still be allowed to enter Advanced Mod or would they have to go in PRO because of the holes cut for the 6x9s?

I realise a sub box could just be sat on the back seat to compete in advanced mod and in theory it might even be louder but the fact is the holes would still be in the parcel shelf

Edited by Dean the EX Grant, 23 January 2012 - 02:20 AM.


#45 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 23 January 2012 - 10:49 PM

Hi Dean, great question dude. I discussed this with the other judges and we came to this conclusion:

If metal has been cut to accommodate larger than factory speakers, the holes need to either house full range speakers, be covered over, or be returned to their original specification.

The idea is that we love to see more speakers in a car and don't want to stop people from putting larger or more quantities of speakers, however we want to ensure that metal trimmed to accommodate full range speakers is utilised for full range speakers only. Trimming metal to mount sub woofers or other electrical components will mean a step out of Advanced class.

And also to clarify the use of factory speaker holes for purposes other than full range speakers - there is no issue with utilising the factory speaker holes to run ports or other electrical equipment, if the vehicle comes with factory 8" holes in the parcel shelf, we have no issue with running ports in those holes instead of speakers. If holes have been cut, they need to accommodate speakers or be covered up in order to still compete in Advanced.

Great question btw - got us scratching our heads for sure LOL

#46 Big_Valven

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:12 AM

Good response. The basic intention of cutting metal within reason to run a bigger fullrange stereo rather than purely to score louder with bass. Makes sense.

#47 bobo333

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:20 AM

im gonna chime in here and clarify aswell that if a hole is cut and a full range speaker installed that it must actually work lol, no cutting a hole and putting a broken ass old factory speaker in there to let more bass through :P

#48 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 03:32 PM

is that an actual rule Beau? lol

The reason I brought the question up is I'm picking up a fully sick $450 VL tonight hahaha and I could bet dollars to cents that it will have had sick bass 6x9s just rough cut into the shelf....

IF I was going to just for a laugh put it in advanced mod the sub box would be on the back seat anyway so would it really matter if the rear speakers didn't work?

#49 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 03:40 PM

What Bobo wrote is correct - unfortuanately you will need to have speakers in those cutouts, or seal them up, or return them to factory spec.

On a good note, i have a set of cheap 6x9's that you can use.. run em off the headunit and you're good to go!!

#50 bobo333

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Posted 24 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

sure is dean

in your case if the box is on the back seat then the holes arent doing anything to make your car louder, but for arguments sake and keeping the rules uniform for everyone surely it wouldnt be very difficult to either hook the 6x9s up so they did work or take them out and cover the holes up with a factory equivalent material?

Edited by bobo333, 24 January 2012 - 03:41 PM.


#51 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 05:25 AM

Sorin would you like to update this to reflect that the Sound Off Super Series is not only a series of stand alone events but is also a series where points are award?

I would but my handbook is in the car and I can't remember how it was worded lol

#52 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:55 PM

ok I grabed my handbook

3pts for 1st place
2pts for 2nd place
1pt for 3rd place
(awarded in each class)

Sorin or someone else will give full details.

Flipping through the handbook I have came up with a couple of questions, the answers to both questions seem to be common scence but I figure I will ask just because no doubt if it isn't clearifed it will pop up as an issue during the year (Murphey's law lol).

"Records Leadership
The top 3 scores per category will be recorded and regulary updated on the South Australian secion of the MEA website. To set a new record, the vehicle needs to have been scrutineered and signed off by no less than 2 judges at any single event." <<< the way this could be read means that I could get my car scrutineered at round one and then at round 2 set a record, maybe it should read "the vehicle needs to have been scrutineered and signed off by no less than 2 judges at the event which the score was produced"

In advanced and expert it say "no voltage limits" does this mean I could run 240v (or even more) ?

#53 bobo333

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:18 PM

The top 3 scores per category will be recorded and regulary updated on the South Australian secion of the MEA website. To set a new record, the vehicle needs to have been scrutineered and signed off by no less than 2 judges at any single event." <<< the way this could be read means that I could get my car scrutineered at round one and then at round 2 set a record, maybe it should read "the vehicle needs to have been scrutineered and signed off by no less than 2 judges at the event which the score was produced"


this is a good point, im sure Sorin will edit the rules on here when he sees this

In advanced and expert it say "no voltage limits" does this mean I could run 240v (or even more) ?


as long as its all in your car i dont see why not, getting a big enough inverter and enough batteries to power a decent 240v amp wouldnt really be worth it though i dont think

#54 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 11:34 PM

this is a good point, im sure Sorin will edit the rules on here when he sees this



as long as its all in your car i dont see why not, getting a big enough inverter and enough batteries to power a decent 240v amp wouldnt really be worth it though i dont think


You know me enough to know I'm rather diplomatic and even I would laugh at someone and tell them to "piss off d*ckhead" but facts are generators are small enough to fit in a car these days with no problems at all

#55 Big_Valven

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:10 AM

What generators have you seen that are capable of 10,000VA+ (realistically 20,000VA+) that fit in a car? I'd love to see one...

Same goes for power inverters.

Let's not get carried away here.

Edited by Big_Valven, 12 February 2012 - 12:11 AM.


#56 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:50 AM

What generators have you seen that are capable of 10,000VA+ (realistically 20,000VA+) that fit in a car? I'd love to see one...

Same goes for power inverters.

Let's not get carried away here.


I don't think I'm getting carried away, just asking the question.

#57 AJ (LOUDA1)

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:46 PM

Does that mean no wall socketing? :P

Posted from my portable device.

#58 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:40 AM

In classes where the sub box needs to be behind the rear seat, Do amps and batteries need to be behind the rear seat also?



Novice, Int, Advanced - with the exception of amps mounted under front seats, nothing is to be installed in either the rear footwell or on the back seat. Nothing can impinge on the operation of the rear seat.

Regarding the window line in these categories (+ Advanced Mod) -

Sub box must always be below rear hatch/tailgate window line. In the scenario where someone's amp is slightly above window line we'll allow it but if someone has a wall of batteries or a full height amp rack and thus lmit rear visibility they wouldn't be allowed in Novice, Int, Advanced or even Advanced Mod..

#59 Dean the EX Grant

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

G'day

Quick question, the SOSS is a points based series but what happens if for example the same person wins every event in "advanced" and another person wins every event in "advanced mod"

How will the over all series Champion be decided? or is there going to be a series Champion for each class?

I guess this is somthing I should have thought to ask at the launch dinner.

#60 Sorin-Andrei

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:12 PM

There will be a series champion Per Class.

That reminds me i need to create a new thread for championship points and records.