14 replies to this topic

[Oblong Cheese]

Warning: long rant post, skip to the tl;dr version below.

Hi everyone,

I have recently bought myself a nice little second hand Fiesta XR4. It has the stock audio system and this needs to go ASAP!

The last time I did anything car audio related was when I was a poor highschool student pimping out my mums car with some bargain-basement equipment, and that was nearly 10 years ago. I am well out of the loop when it comes to what's good and what's not good in terms of car audio, though I am a little bit of an audiophile when it comes to my home theatre and my PC music listening/gaming (FLAC or nothing, thanks). That said, I am not an evangelistic audiophile, and I am also not part of the 1%, so I have a budget in mind.

I listen to music (not audio test tones) so massive power is not my aim. Some of the artists in regular rotation for me are Nine Inch Nails, Pendulum, Midnight Juggernauts, Regina Spektor, Cut Copy, Muscles, and recently various dubstep artists.

I want to replace the head unit, ditch the front and rear speakers, and get myself a suitable amplifier(s) and a small subwoofer. I want to keep it looking stock however, so I am going to go with 5x7 coaxials in the front for sure. Given the rear speakers are just behind the front seats, I can imagine having a 'hole' in the sound behind me might irritate me, so perhaps I will do the rear speakers too. Not sure about that yet.

As for the head unit, I have already been recommended the Alpine 117E or the Eclipse CD5030 which both have the two main features I want (Bluetooth, SD/USB), though I really like the look of the Pioneer 8350BT it unfortunately has a 16-bit DAC whereas the Alpine and Eclipse units have a 24-bit DAC (or so I am led to believe). So I'm leaning more toward the Alpine solely because I've actually heard of that brand before and also because it's the least ugly of the two.

I suppose if I go with an Alpine HU I should also choose an appropriate Alpine amplifier. Though that depends on what speakers I want: Soundstream Tarantula SS5.7? I choose these because I have read they are "the best" 5x7 speakers on the market, but I've never heard any of them so how can I say for sure?

Back to the amplifier choice, the Alpine range of amps was also recommended to me. So it would make sense to buy something like an Alpine PDX4.150 for my speakers, and an Alpine MRX-M50 for my subwoofer, an Alpine SWS-1223D.

tl;dr version:

Car: 2008 Fiesta XR4
Music: Nine Inch Nails, Pendulum, Midnight Juggernauts, Regina Spektor, Cut Copy, Muscles, and recently various dubstep artists.

Proposed HU: Alpine 117E or the Eclipse CD5030 (prefer Alpine)
Proposed speakers: Soundstream Tarantula SS5.7 (want to keep stock look, undecided front only or front+rear)
Proposed speaker amp: Alpine PDX.150
Proposed sub amp: Alpine MRX-M50
Proposed sub: Alpine SWS-1223D

Thoughts? Opinions?

Please bare in mind that aside from a quick review of these forums the only thing I've really done is read manufacturer spec. sheets. If any of these components are totally wrong together, let me know!

Thanks

Edited by Oblong Cheese, 01 January 2012 - 08:27 AM.

[Damon]

Well, first of all, the CDA-117 does not feature Bluetooth. It requires an add-on KTE-250BT module that costs $299.

The Eclipse CD5030 is certainly very affordable by comparison and comes with Bluetooth built in, but it is quite an old model now and this may have complications if you own a later model iPhone for both charging and Bluetooth functions. Hopefully someone else has some specific experience with this unit, but if you own an iPhone 4 be sure and check how well the CD5030 supports this device.

Your amplifier choice seems fine, but you've chosen the wrong model subwoofer. You will need the SWS1243D dual 4ohm model as this will allow a 2ohm load to be connected to the mono amplifier to achieve its full 500WRMS output potential.

I've personally NOT auditioned or review the Soundstream speakers so I cannot say if they sound good or not. But the reviews section here on MEA has a few batch reviews you can check out for alternatives.

[shiny_car]

Proposed speakers: Soundstream Tarantula SS5.7 (want to keep stock look, undecided front only or front+rear)

What is the 'stock look'? Are the speakers on show?

Presuming the speakers are behind factory grills, you can't see the speakers at all. So there's no great reason to fit 5x7, especially if you're going to build a new mdf wood spacer ring to hold them. Meaning, if 6~6.5" 'round' speakers fit easily enough with a round spacer, then this opens up your choice 100-fold.

Rear speakers are primarily for rear passengers, so they may not be a priority to you. I would focus on the best front speakers you can afford, and keep the factory rears.

The other recommendation would be: rather than spend $800 on the PDX amp to run $300 speakers, swap that budget around. You'll achieve far better sound from using a $300 amp (eg: MRX-F30, bridged) running $800 speakers (take your pick; even if you spend $600 on speakers, these will be excellent).

[Oblong Cheese]

Well, first of all, the CDA-117 does not feature Bluetooth. It requires an add-on KTE-250BT module that costs $299.

The Eclipse CD5030 is certainly very affordable by comparison and comes with Bluetooth built in, but it is quite an old model now and this may have complications if you own a later model iPhone for both charging and Bluetooth functions. Hopefully someone else has some specific experience with this unit, but if you own an iPhone 4 be sure and check how well the CD5030 supports this device.

Your amplifier choice seems fine, but you've chosen the wrong model subwoofer. You will need the SWS1243D dual 4ohm model as this will allow a 2ohm load to be connected to the mono amplifier to achieve its full 500WRMS output potential.

I've personally NOT auditioned or review the Soundstream speakers so I cannot say if they sound good or not. But the reviews section here on MEA has a few batch reviews you can check out for alternatives.

Thanks for the info! $299 for a Bluetooth module? Tell 'em he's dreamin'! I don't have any iDevices so that's not a concern for me. I was planning on using a USB flash drive and pairing my Samsung Android phone.

OK, I don't understand what you're saying about the amp and sub and the impedance: how does 4 ohms times two equal 2 ohms? (obviously I am thinking about this in completely the wrong way)

What is the 'stock look'? Are the speakers on show?

Presuming the speakers are behind factory grills, you can't see the speakers at all. So there's no great reason to fit 5x7, especially if you're going to build a new mdf wood spacer ring to hold them. Meaning, if 6~6.5" 'round' speakers fit easily enough with a round spacer, then this opens up your choice 100-fold.

Rear speakers are primarily for rear passengers, so they may not be a priority to you. I would focus on the best front speakers you can afford, and keep the factory rears.

The other recommendation would be: rather than spend $800 on the PDX amp to run $300 speakers, swap that budget around. You'll achieve far better sound from using a $300 amp (eg: MRX-F30, bridged) running $800 speakers (take your pick; even if you spend $600 on speakers, these will be excellent).

The car has speaker grilles - by stock look I mean I don't want to get into fabricating A-pillar mounts for tweeters and that kind of thing. I don't really want to manufacture anything (no tools) but if the sound improvement of a 6.5" coaxial over a 5x7" is that impressive then it definitely makes sense.

With that said, what sort of 6/6.5" coaxials would you recommend in that price range? I have now heard it enough times that replacing the rear speakers is not worth the time, money or effort so I guess I'll have to accept that. A new set of front speakers and appropriate two-channel amp are what I should be aiming for.

[Mr. Drifter]

For the head units, I can vouch for the 117e. I haven't had too hard a time using it, whereas the eclipse took me a bit of work to even figure out how to control the iPod...

But yeah, the Bluetooth is a bit of a killer...

[Damon]

Do a little reading up on Ohm's Law to get a better understanding of what happens when you connect varying impedence loads together in different ways.

In short, however, two 4ohm loads parallel wired (plus to plus/minus to minus) will arrive at a 2ohm load. This is the load you want to present to the amplifier in question.

Conversely, two 2ohm loads wired in parallel arrives at a 1ohm load - which can be driven by the Alpine mono but this restricts power to 300WRMS while also causing the amplifier to operate at a much higher internal tempurature. Less power and higher temps is a lose/lose scenario.

Edited by Damon, 01 January 2012 - 10:39 PM.

[shiny_car]

With that said, what sort of 6/6.5" coaxials would you recommend in that price range? I have now heard it enough times that replacing the rear speakers is not worth the time, money or effort so I guess I'll have to accept that. A new set of front speakers and appropriate two-channel amp are what I should be aiming for.

Not coaxials, but 6.5" splits/components. You will need to measure up the available space to get an idea if it's an easy fit for the woofers, including the available depth (with the window down). Tweeters...well, really small ones tend to sound pretty average. Most good ones are 25~28mm diameter or bigger, and chunkier than factory ones. So again, size up the available space, and hopefully you can fit a decent tweeter there.

As a starting point, read Damon's review: http://www.mobileele...view_under_600/

There's some great speakers around for $600ish. I would be looking at Morel Crescendo, Hertz, Focal, DLS, etc. Importantly, audition before you commit; by all means make a shortlist based upon reviews/opinions/price, but these aspects don't tell you if you'll enjoy their sound with your favourite music.

[Oblong Cheese]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Most of the audio shops are still closed for new year break, it'll be a week or so before I can actually go and see/hear anything in person.

Rest assured I'll have more questions later ...

Edited by Oblong Cheese, 02 January 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[Oblong Cheese]

Does this configuration make sense?

HU: Eclipse CD5030
Fronts: Hertz HSK165
Amp: Hertz HDP4 (in 3Ch mode, 150 W x 2 for fronts and 500 W x 1 for subwoofer)
Sub: appropriate Hertz or other sub 8"-10"

[268669♫]

Yes, and is not a bad little package.

Ant

[justdofit]

Does this configuration make sense?

HU: Eclipse CD5030
Fronts: Hertz HSK165
Amp: Hertz HDP4 (in 3Ch mode, 150 W x 2 for fronts and 500 W x 1 for subwoofer)
Sub: appropriate Hertz or other sub 8"-10"

Nice setup!

I have those speakers - to my ear they are very smooth clean and clear!

If you're in Brisbane there's a few places to demo them - most of which stock (and demo) a few different speaker models/brands in the same price bracket - to see what sounds best to you...

I have personally run the HSKs off 90W per side (passive) - at (and above) moderate listening levels they were clean and clear. Now they're hooked up active @ 90W per speaker (mids + twts) and no issues with that amount of power either

Also there's a Hertz HX300D (12") sub in my garage almost ready to drop into it's enclosure - it should be ready by the first MEA round if you'd like to listen to one in a car?

[Jared.A]

The CD5030 does support the iphone 4 with both bluetooth and charging aswell as audio streaming.

[Oblong Cheese]

I actually used the Eclipse and the Alpine today, going to go with the Alpine for sure. It's way nicer looking and way easier to use. Got a quote from my local Northfield Car Sound for the following:

Speakers		Focal 165VR			    xxx

Speaker amp		Focal Solid 2			    xxx

Head unit		Alpine CDA-117E (incl. Bluetooth)    xxx

Subwoofer		Focal BombA			    xxx

Dynamat	2 door kit					    xxx

Dash install kit					    xx

Steering wheel controls					    xxx

Cabling							    xxx

Install HU						    xxx

Install front splits					    xxx

Install amp						    xxx

Install sub						    xxx

		

Total							    xxxx

Whereas I can get this cheaper and do a self-install (prices from FHRX Studios off a price list, haven't tried to negotiate on price yet):

Speakers				Hertz HSK 165		    xxx

Speaker amp				Hertz HDP4		    xxx

Head unit				Alpine CDA-117E		    xxx

Subwoofer				Hertz HX250/EBX250	    xxx

Dynamat					Amazon.com (2x 10435 door kits)    xxx

Dash install kit			soundmaster.com.au	    xx

Steering wheel controls			ministryofbass.com.au	    xxx

ISO connector harness			ministryofbass.com.au	    xx

Cabling	???							    xxx

			

Total								    xxxx

The difference is obviously in the speakers/amp/sub with the Focals being much cheaper and the amp being immensely cheaper ($299 vs. $799). The Focal speakers are good and about 50W RMS less powerful, though the small size of my car leaves me wondering if the extra power is worth anything?

A self-install would be nice to do so I'd learn something, though I know with my anal-retentiveness it would take me a very long time. Though at least I know it was done properly.

[Mr. Drifter]

It's not too bad doing it yourself. Also, had a feeling you'd sway to the alpine xD the eclipse really doesn't seem very easy to use.... well, not without lots of studying >.>

[shiny_car]

Got a quote from my local Northfield Car Sound for the following:

Speakers		Focal 165VR				xxx

Speaker amp		Focal Solid 2				xxx

Head unit		Alpine CDA-117E (incl. Bluetooth)	xxx

Subwoofer		Focal BombA				xxx

Dynamat	2 door kit						xxx

Dash install kit						xx

Steering wheel controls						xxx

Cabling								xxx

Install HU							xxx

Install front splits						xxx

Install amp							xxx

Install sub							xxx

		

Total								xxxx

Sorry, but I removed the prices. I don't think it's good to show prices without asking them first, and should be treated as a private quotation to only you. At the end of the day, you shouldn't look only at the price, without taking into consideration other things like the service they offer and time they've spent showing you the gear and listening to your needs.

Whereas I can get this cheaper and do a self-install (prices from FHRX Studios off a price list, haven't tried to negotiate on price yet)

And again, price is one thing, but as you've pointed out, the package is considerably different. Fhrx Studios are great to deal with, and will help you out for sure. One thing they can't do is physically help out with any installation and tuning; they are renowned for aftersales service like this. Buying from a local store has this advantage. Take it all into consideration.

Both packages look good, btw.